mormonrasta wrote:

ND/BYU wrote:

I would be more interested to see what out of conference teams we have beat over the past 20 years that were ranked at years end.

1997- 13-10 ASU AP final ranking 14 (My favorite BYU game of all time)
1996- 19-15 Kansas State AP final ranking 17
1992- 30-17 Penn State USA Today final ranking 25 (not ranked in the AP)
1990- 28-21 Miami AP final ranking 3

That's the list. But that's OK. Bronco is laying the groundwork for greatness. He has reestablished respectability, proved he could consistently win the conference, proved he could win bowl games, and proved he could win with different players.

Now he needs to prove he can win conference games on the road and beat ranked nonconference foes. Another challenge I'm confident he will meet.

Thank you. I agree that we are in a great spot to move up. For some reason people want to prove we are a top 10 or 25 team when we should be focused on moving forward. I agree Bronco is laying the groundwork for something special and consistent success.

P.S. My favorite game was the 1990 Miami game, best BYU game I ever attended hands down.

Thanks ND/BYU and Mormonrasta for the links and data. One game I'll not soon forget was the Texas A&M game - Because I was there. A&M were ranked pretty high when BYU beat them in the Pigskin Classic with a late TD from Sarkisian.

Tom Trails wrote:

There is a big talent gap between us and the top ten. Obviously Bronco knows this and realizes that we need more speed to play with the big big boys.

I do think we can play with anyone in the 15-25. I read where some dope felt we would play with and possibly beat USC. I hope that belief isn't more pervasive among cougar fans, because it is ludicrous. Above average defenses vs. Utah and UCLA held us to 17 pt. Team speed of the BCS bowl teams would kill us.

That being said, we overachieved this year and are a legit top 25 team, tho probably not a top 15 team. That's OK. This is where we should be. We are not going to be in the top 10 year in and out. I think if we compete yearly for the MWC and win it at least every 2-3 yr, finish in the top 25 at least every other year, go bowling every year, and about once every 6-8 yr compete for a spot in the top 12, given our handicaps (honor code, lack of AA athletes, etc) if we can accomplish that and run a clean program, we should be happy.

But amigos, there is a huge talent gap between us and the big boys. They would run us off the field this year. Our offense is not a juggernaut. Our kicking is poor. Our depth is poor. Our speed is average at best. Bronco no doubt knows this. We need those athletes to take the next step. With the talent we have, we might luck out and be a Hawaii with a great record, but we'd be run in a BCS game. I want to get us there, but I dont want to get embarrassed.

Who are the "Big Boys"? We don't have the speed to play with a Kansas? Where did they all of a sudden find such a fast team? Were they too fast for us in many years of the last 2 decades while they were turning in horrible preformances.

Arizona has been in the national championship chase in the recent past - we don't score 50 on this type of team; but we certainly aren't out of our league. Have they misplaced their "Big Boys"?

Is BYU consistently better than top 25 or a top 10 teams? Obviously, not. Would I love our team speed to be better? Obviously, so. However, I doubt Bronco is thinking that he and the team aren't ready for your "Big Boys". The program is still building, but will get there. Anyone planning on getting worked hasn't watched enough college football. Any given weekend...

In highscool you often get programs without a ton of talent beating more talented teams because there is certainly a coaching gap between the have's and the have-nots.

Because at the college and NFL level there is nolonger large gaps between many coaching staffs (ofcourse there are your exceptions...see UCLA) the gap between teams is more acurately measured in talent ie: speed.

But let's get one thing straight. Although BYU would not consistently beat the best teams in the country, under the current leadership, BYU would never get beaten the way Hawaii was.

MountainMD wrote:

Tom Trails wrote:

There is a big talent gap between us and the top ten. Obviously Bronco knows this and realizes that we need more speed to play with the big big boys.

I do think we can play with anyone in the 15-25. I read where some dope felt we would play with and possibly beat USC. I hope that belief isn't more pervasive among cougar fans, because it is ludicrous. Above average defenses vs. Utah and UCLA held us to 17 pt. Team speed of the BCS bowl teams would kill us.

That being said, we overachieved this year and are a legit top 25 team, tho probably not a top 15 team. That's OK. This is where we should be. We are not going to be in the top 10 year in and out. I think if we compete yearly for the MWC and win it at least every 2-3 yr, finish in the top 25 at least every other year, go bowling every year, and about once every 6-8 yr compete for a spot in the top 12, given our handicaps (honor code, lack of AA athletes, etc) if we can accomplish that and run a clean program, we should be happy.

But amigos, there is a huge talent gap between us and the big boys. They would run us off the field this year. Our offense is not a juggernaut. Our kicking is poor. Our depth is poor. Our speed is average at best. Bronco no doubt knows this. We need those athletes to take the next step. With the talent we have, we might luck out and be a Hawaii with a great record, but we'd be run in a BCS game. I want to get us there, but I dont want to get embarrassed.

Who are the "Big Boys"? We don't have the speed to play with a Kansas? Where did they all of a sudden find such a fast team? Were they too fast for us in many years of the last 2 decades while they were turning in horrible preformances.

Arizona has been in the national championship chase in the recent past - we don't score 50 on this type of team; but we certainly aren't out of our league. Have they misplaced their "Big Boys"?

Is BYU consistently better than top 25 or a top 10 teams? Obviously, not. Would I love our team speed to be better? Obviously, so. However, I doubt Bronco is thinking that he and the team aren't ready for your "Big Boys". The program is still building, but will get there. Anyone planning on getting worked hasn't watched enough college football. Any given weekend...

He is discussing the top teams, not one off good years such as KS or bottom dwells in BCS conferences (or even wins over top programs in their down years). I think we can beat anyone on any give weekend, but not consistently enough to think we could be one of the top teams in the country if we were in a BCS conference. Sure AZ was in a BCS conference but they were not good, and when did they compete for an NC? 1994 SI named them preseason number 1 but they ended up #20, finished 8-4, and lost to Utah in the Freedom Bowl.

ND/BYU Wrote:

Knucklehead, to have your argument be relavent please also attach the ranking and record of the team the year we beat them. Please write the all the teams that we beat that finished in the top 15 over the past 5 years.

ND/BYU, thank you for letting me know how I can make my argument relevant, TIC. Let me turn the tables, we don't have the final top 25 poll out yet so we will have to look at the top 25 that came out in week 14.

Ohio State is going to play in the BC$ Championship game, right? How many teams did Ohio State beat this year that are currently in the top 25?

Answer: One, Wisconsin and they were beaten by Tennessee in their bowl game.

How many teams that are currently in the top 25 did Kansas beat in order to get into the Orange Bowl?

Answer: Zero

How about Southern Cal? How many teams did they beat in the current top 25 to get into the Rose Bowl?

Answer: One, Arizona State and we all watched them get worked in the Holiday Bowl.

Is beating one team that ends the season ranked in the top 25 is enough to qualify you as a big boy yourself?