timmyboy wrote:

snoscythe wrote:

I honestly think that is about the extent of thought that Chad Ford put into the later picks in the first round. Hibbert to Utah??? How the hell does Hibbert fit into a Jerry Sloan system, especially with Fez knocking on the door. The point being, mock drafts are crapshoots, and the farther down the list you get, the more crap that gets shot.

I don't understand the Hibbert thing either, but there are A LOT of people that think he will be coming to Utah. This has been floating around for weeks. Just google it. So, maybe this guy didn't just pull it out of a hat.

Most of it stems from the fact that Jazz GM Kevin O'Connor traveled to the Big East Conference Tournament to evaluate talent in anticipation of the upcoming draft, and Hibbert was the biggest attraction there. However, there were also these prospects he could have been evaluating, each of whom is a better fit for a Jerry Sloan offense and defense than an immobile 5: David Padgett, Louisville; Brian Laing, Seton Hall; Kentrell Gransberry, USF; Joe Alexander, West Virginia; and Draelon Burns, DePaul. The Jazz are not a team who drafts players that don't fit the system in hopes of developing them and shopping them later. That's what the Clippers do. The Jazz can't do much in free agency, so they draft where they have a need, and they draft players that fit in their system.

I'm not a Utah resident, and I'm hardly close enough to the Jazz to know how they operate and draft; in fact I always thought that Deron Williams was one trip to Chuckarama away from being too slow to play in the NBA-so what do I know?

But I'm not sure how if Greg Ostertag and Mark Easton can play in Jerry Sloan systems, that Roy Hibbert can't. The fact that Hibbert would come cheap compared to Ostertag is no laughing matter either. (I will always believe that the Ostertag contract was the single biggest obstacle to Stockton and Malone getting a well deserved ring).

Hibbert is a big 7'2", 280 lb cerebral player that can actually shoot the ball, was considered a lottery pick last year after his performance in the NCAAs, he passes the ball very well for a big man, and can be a prescence on defense with his size and shot blocking ability.

He's not fleet of foot and I don't see him as a potential all-pro (he's not Olajuwan or Ewing), but he's also not just a big oaf (He's not Olden Polynice/Felton Spencer/Yinka Dare..all lottery picks) . The fact that he can shoot the ball (particularly free throws), face the basket and pass the ball reduce the "liability" factor when he's on the court. He has game changing size in the post and has played with and against the best college players in the country (and beaten most). I honestly think he's the victim of past overhype; but he's still a viable NBA player.

There was a time in the past that NBA execs bought into the "you can't teach size" argument and drafts followed that train of thought. Now all of a sudden, everyone wants the next Chris Paul... so small guards get price inflations while height and size take a dive. 20-15-10-5 years ago, Hibbert wouldn't have escaped the lottery; if he does fall far enough for the Jazz to take him this year, I don't see how they're getting bad value for him.

The majority of sites have Hibbert being gone before pick #23 anyhow
http://www.nbadraft.net/


Again, if Mark Eaton and Greg Ostertag can play in Jerry Sloans system, I doubt there isn't room for Hibbert; especially during the 80+ game grind that is the NBA regular season.

Other than the home run pick of Deron Williams and a solid pick in Kirilenko, I'm not sure any other guys were fabulous draft picks and for nearly every other pick that Utah had at #20+, I see Roy Hibbert being a better option than what they got

I can think of much worse picks by the Jazz:
25. Utah Morris Almond 6-6 214 SG
14. Utah Ronnie Brewer 6-7 223 SG Arkansas - verdict still out
2005 = Jackpot with Deron Williams (in a bad draft it was a nobrainer between Williams and Paul when Bogut and Marvin Williams came off the board)14. Utah Kris Humphries 6-9 238 PF Minnesota --2004
16. Utah Kirk Snyder 6-7 228 SG Nevada -- 2004
(could have moved up with 2 picks but Josh and JR Smith went after both picks, as did Kevin Martin, Al Jefferson)
19. Utah Aleksandar Pavlovic 6-7 207 SG/SF Serbia
(Josh Howard went #29) --2003
19. Utah Ryan Humphrey 6-7 223 SF/PF Notre Dame
(Tayshaun Prince went #23) --2002
24. Utah Raul Lopez 6-0 PG Real Madrid -- 2001
(2002 was a bad year to be wrong, Tony Parker, Samual Dalembert,
Gilbert Arenas, Gerald Wallace and Jamaal Tinsley all went after Lopez)
23. Utah DeShawn Stevenson Union HS SG 6-5 210 --2000
24 Utah Andrei Kirilenko 6-9 205 SF Russia -1999
29. Utah Nazr Mohammed Kentucky -- 1998
27. Utah Jacque Vaughn Kansas -- 1997
25. Utah (b) Martin Muursepp Europe -- 1996
28. Utah Greg Ostertag Kansas -- 1995
no 1st rd pick 94
18. Utah Luther Wright Seton Hall -- 1993
no 1st rd pick 92
21. Utah Eric Murdock Providence -- 1991
no 1st rd pick 90
17 Utah Eric Leckner Wyoming -- 1988
15 Utah Jose Ortiz Oregon State --1987

Why is a slow, big center suddenly a liability??

The no-contact zone beneath the basket. When the NBA put that rule in the book, they basically neutralized the big man in the game. The real contenders now are the teams with a #5 who either a--has range to play away from the basket or b--is just another power forward.

Since the inception of the no-contact zone, the league has become a point guard/power forward league. To contend, you need stars at those two positions. A slow, flat-footed center still works in the NCAA, but they are dinosaurs in today's NBA.

Yes, Greg Ostertag and Eaton worked for the Jazz, but that was a different game--not just in style, but by the rules of the game.

As for your draft history, I think you have proven the point that if Hibbert really is as good as you think he is, the Jazz will likely not pick him up. They have a history--as shown by your post--of drafting role players to fill a need, and the #5 spot is not their position of greatest need at this point. They have Memo, who played all-pro caliber ball the second half of this season, and they also have one of the top 4 young prospects in Fesenko. Their need continues to be outside range and defense to start the #2 spot, and that is where the Jazz will be drafting again this year.

It seems to me they have a history of drafting players that stink regardless of need. You can argue that in 20+ years of the draft, that they blew it on all but 2-3 picks.
In fact aside from Deron Williams, they've really wiffed on picks.

If big slow guys are so lowly valued then why are we seeing guys like Brook Lopez, Kevin Love, and DeAndre Jordan (gasp) being considered lottery picks?

In fact of those guys just named, Roy Hibbert has most shooting range. Hibbert can shoot the ball, can pass on the perimeter and won't be pushed around in the post.

I'm not saying that Hibbert is a potential allstar but I don't see him as a liability. Considering that the Jazz took Kris Humphries at 14, I can't imagine that having a guy like Hibbert come off the bench at pick 23 would be a liability.

I get it if a Joe Alexander, Chase Budinger, or even CDR or Brandon Rush were there at #23 that the Jazz would have to consider them; but I don't see how you can' consider Hibbert as a game changer off the bench with his size and shooting range at such a late 1st round pick. At least they might draft a guy that would be on their roster for more than a couple years.

I do get the Fesenko argument if he's really going to be a game changer.

I don't get dismissing Hibbert though based on where the Jazz are drafting; especially if he's there and the 2-3 guys like Alexander, Budinger or CDR aren't.

craigoscarson wrote:

Brook Lopez, Kevin Love, and DeAndre Jordan.

First off, Lopez and Love are not entering the draft as true centers. They are both natural fours who have played out of position at the college level. That lends to the new NBA where instead of a 4 and a 5 you have a 4 and a bigger 4.

DeAndre Jordan is far and away a better athletic specimen than Hibbert. Jordan has the lateral speed to guard the quicker, but shorter players and to follow a 4 on the dribble. Hibbert does not have that quickness.

Yes, Hibbert might be the best center left when the Jazz pick, but with Memo and Fez, why would the Jazz draft him when they have a more pressing need at the 2 spot in a draft that is deeper at the 2 than any other draft?

The Jazz will not draft Hibbert for two reasons:
1) They have other needs more pressing than Hibbert
and
2) Hibbert is too slow for Jerry Sloan's defense post-no-contact-zone.

In fact of those guys just named, Roy Hibbert has most shooting range.

Uh....are you kidding?? Hibbert has more range than Kevin Love???? What MTN channel have you been getting information from??

He does this at EVERY pregame warm-up:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=1z2sFmrR7bc

I give Hibbert more range than Jordan and maybe even Lopez, but to even intimate he has more range than Love is hoops sacrilege.

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700231988,00.html

Might just be lip service to throw off the other teams but it would seem that Hibbert is still a possibility based on that article.