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TOPIC: Soccer in America
#112940
Hawkeye-Coug (User)
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Re:Soccer in America 11 Months, 3 Weeks ago Karma: 4  
I would say that offsides creates good defense.


If it is good defense, it will be played with or without offsides. If it is not good defense, then offsides will make a difference. So, what you are saying is that players use offsides to bail them out on defense. That is what I am saying too, and that is why I oppose it. I would prefer the last line of defenders working together to stop a goal, as opposed to working together to use a petty and inappropriate rule. There is a goalie back there who can use his hands - isn't that enough of a defensive advantage relative to the other 10 players on the team? Even if offsides should be used in professional soccer, it should never be used in youth soccer due to the bad habits it encourages.

And offside does not encourage slow defenders.
Offsides does cover for slower, less agile defenders. Or, perhaps more accurately, it covers for defenders who decide to play slow simply because an offsides will bail them out. Thus, there is an advantage in choosing defenders that are big and physical, who can head balls. Their weakness in agility is partially covered by offsides. I also think the basketball analogy is off. Soccer/futbol is much more like football. DB's in football are small and fast to be able to cover the WRs. Can you imagine football outlawing the long bomb simply because there wasn't a defender between the WR and the goal line?

If you don't have offsides, it actually discourages controlled passing.
Perhaps you should tell that to football teams. Since there isn't a rule prohibiting the long ball, it discourages controlled passing. Threading a ball between defenders to an open man is exciting in either soccer or football, and is certainly controlled passing. Indeed, the skill displayed is much higher in soccer due to the use of the foot instead of the hand, and the spin of the ball. Controlled passing would be much more valuable and creative without the offside penalty.

Without offsides there would be some cherry picking, but you would mostly see defenders just hanging back against the goal...leaving huge gaps between offense and defense. You would rarely see the defense playing so far up the field. There wouldn't be nearly as many breakaways, just a bunch of crowding around the goal.
There is quite a bit of crowding around on the goal on free kicks and corner kicks, yet they somehow manage to score more often on those plays than others. I think with the elimination of the offsides you would see much more man defense, and much less zone. You would also see people flashing in front of the goal, trying to attack through the seams in the defense. It would be much more interesting near the goal than it is now.

I also would favor eliminating a man on each team. At any moment of the game there are 2-3 players on each team standing around, not including the goalie. Take away a player, and allow free substitution at half time.

One more thing. Get a real clock, with real stoppages, so everyone can see. This whole thing of "don't let the players see the time" is totally stupid, and impossible to enforce.

Go Cougs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 
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#112941
Hawkeye-Coug (User)
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Re:Soccer in America 11 Months, 3 Weeks ago Karma: 4  
Double Post

Go Cougs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<br><br>Post edited by: Hawkeye-Coug, at: 2007/07/17 13:47

 
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#112950
kitic77 (User)
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Re:Soccer in America 11 Months, 3 Weeks ago Karma: 82  
Hawkeye-Coug wrote:
Perhaps you should tell that to football teams. Since there isn't a rule prohibiting the long ball, it discourages controlled passing. Threading a ball between defenders to an open man is exciting in either soccer or football, and is certainly controlled passing. Indeed, the skill displayed is much higher in soccer due to the use of the foot instead of the hand, and the spin of the ball. Controlled passing would be much more valuable and creative without the offside penalty.


Um, actually, in football you can't be behind the defense before the ball is played. In fact, you can't even move forward on offense before the play begins. You must be in front of the defense when the ball is snapped. It's the exact same in soccer, you can't be behind the defense when the ball is snapped/kicked.

And your football analogy doesn't work, because they are different sports. You can't say one rule in one sport doesn't work because look at another sport. Like clock. It's a moot point to argue that there should be a clock in baseball because they have three outs instead. Each game is different

 
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#113019
Hawkeye-Coug (User)
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Re:Soccer in America 11 Months, 3 Weeks ago Karma: 4  
Um, actually, in football you can't be behind the defense before the ball is played. In fact, you can't even move forward on offense before the play begins. You must be in front of the defense when the ball is snapped. It's the exact same in soccer, you can't be behind the defense when the ball is snapped/kicked.


That is totally stupid. In soccer you can't be in front of the &quot;line&quot; until the ball is in play either. However, after the ball is in play you can be in back of the defense in football, and you should be able to make a play on the ball in soccer.

Soccer supporters talk in glowing phrases about the flow of the game, and the tradition of sportsmanship. Well, how does the gamesmanship of manipulating the offsides penalty factor into those admirable qualities? It slows the flow of the game, lessens the teamwork, is arbitrarily called by any measure, and rewards laziness.

One last thing. Why are you trying to convince with large green type? Is it because none of the arguments made by the offsides apologists have ever made any sense, and never will?

Go Cougs!!!!!

 
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#113029
kitic77 (User)
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Re:Soccer in America 11 Months, 3 Weeks ago Karma: 82  
Hawkeye-Coug wrote:
That is totally stupid. In soccer you can't be in front of the &quot;line&quot; until the ball is in play either. However, after the ball is in play you can be in back of the defense in football, and you should be able to make a play on the ball in soccer.


This is the point I was trying to make. You can look at the offsides rule in soccer and from a certain point of view, it is the same as in football. Once the ball has been snapped you can get behind the defense and make a play. In soccer once the ball has been kicked you can get behind the defense and make a play. The difference is when the play starts in soccer requires a higher degree of timing, whereas in football you have a snap count.

Soccer supporters talk in glowing phrases about the flow of the game, and the tradition of sportsmanship. Well, how does the gamesmanship of manipulating the offsides penalty factor into those admirable qualities? It slows the flow of the game, lessens the teamwork, is arbitrarily called by any measure, and rewards laziness.


You clearly don't watch much soccer. It does not reward laziness, defenders must remain alert and aware of where their teammates are so that they hold the line and they're not the one to keep someone onsides. An effectively executed offsides trap actually requires a great deal of teamwork - but by the defense. If the four defenders are not in sync, then the forward is on a break away against the keeper. And it certainly doesn't slow the game any more than stopping the game and clock after every single play for 40 seconds like they do in football.

Look, I don't think it's an either/or argument with soccer. Is soccer a great sport? I think so. Does it have issues with how it is played that are holding it back? Probably. Could it be improved? Probably. Is it still fun in its current, imperfect form? I think so.

Do I still watch both football and soccer? Yep.


One last thing. Why are you trying to convince with large green type? Is it because none of the arguments made by the offsides apologists have ever made any sense, and never will?


Umm no. The large green font is my trademark. I've been using green on Cougarblue for a long time. I just don't think it's fair to criticize soccer because of a &quot;weird&quot; rule, because every sport has their quirks.

Go Cougs!!!!!


Amen.

 
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#113056
A_King (Moderator)
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Re:Soccer in America 11 Months, 3 Weeks ago Karma: 31  
Personally, I thought the Football &quot;snap the ball&quot; analogy was a pretty good one in explaining the Offsides rule in soccer.

Think about it, the defenders are having to watch alot of action, and anyone who has watched soccer knows how fast the ball can go from one Keeper to the other end of the field, LONG BEFORE a player could physically run there unless he anticipated it and started before the kick from the keeper.

So, the offsides rule is JUST like the Football offsides before the snap rule.

You can't let offensive players hang out behind the defense who are paying attention to every pass upfield and gauging when to join the offensive position for a strike.

If you did, it would be like letting the WR go to the endzone before the ball was snapped and all the QB had to do was drop back a step or two and launch it to the WIDE OPEN receiver.

A keeper can LAUNCH the ball in nano-seconds and a forward chilling with the opposing keeper would be that WR sitting in the Endzone UNFAIRLY too early.

Kitic's example was pretty good, if you ask me.

 
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