gordito wrote:

cruiser wrote:

Most of you know that I'm as blue as anybody, but this really saddens me. Although it has to do with a baseball player, in the bigger picture, you can see how it might affect the football program just four days before loi-signing day.

http://www.sltrib.com/collegesports/ci_8149321

How might it affect the football program?
It's a given that the public won't be given all the details here. Certainly he's not surprised, surely it's not just missing a few Sundays right? I just hope this works itself out and nobody gets bitter.

Some coaches who are competing with us for highly regarded recruits will not hesitate to send this link to those athletes, along with a message of their own, saying something like, "Are you sure you want to play on a team where you can be kicked off for not going to church?" Some coaches will use any leverage they can get. In this case, they will simply see it as informing the athetes of the "truth" about BYU.

cruiser wrote:

gordito wrote:

cruiser wrote:

Most of you know that I'm as blue as anybody, but this really saddens me. Although it has to do with a baseball player, in the bigger picture, you can see how it might affect the football program just four days before loi-signing day.

http://www.sltrib.com/collegesports/ci_8149321

How might it affect the football program?
It's a given that the public won't be given all the details here. Certainly he's not surprised, surely it's not just missing a few Sundays right? I just hope this works itself out and nobody gets bitter.

Some coaches who are competing with us for highly regarded recruits will not hesitate to send this link to those athletes, along with a message of their own, saying something like, "Are you sure you want to play on a team where you can be kicked off for not going to church?" Some coaches will use any leverage they can get. In this case, they will simply see it as informing the athetes of the "truth" about BYU.

Exactly. Didn't that happen this year with a short-term commit? It seemed like somebody prayed and felt that BYU was the right choice and committed to BYU, only to have ute coaches remind him that he had to do all the hard stuff at BYU like go to church, live the commandments and go to class. It seems like that was why he decomitted and comitted with the U. I think it was Sealver Siliga (sp?).

Mars wrote:

OLB wrote:

...it doesn't do the program any good if that recruit never makes it onto the field because they can't live by the Honor Code.

Your response shows that you didn't read the article linked above. You should.

Actually, I did read the article ... it is you that didn't read my post. Your lack of attention to my posts is becoming tiresome.

Not attending Church meetings is a violation of the Honor Code. That is why his Bishop/Stake President yanked his endorsement.

The article stated that this was done not by the Honor Code Office, but by his ecclesiatical leaders. There is a difference, and I made that distinction in my post. Your inability to comprehend that is your problem, not mine.

Look at BYU's Honor Code homepage. It states the following:

http://honorcode.byu.edu/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3585

"As a matter of personal commitment, students, faculty, and staff of Brigham Young University ... seek to demonstrate in daily living on and off campus those moral virues encompassed in the gospel of Jesus Christ, and will:

Be honest
Obey the law and all campus policies
Live a chaste and virtuous life
Respect others
Abstain from alcoholic beverages, tobacco, tea, coffee, and substance abuse
Encourage others in their commitment to comply with the Honor Code
Observe Dress and Grooming Standards
Participate regularly in church services
Use clean language."

Interestingly, all of the above bullet points are hyper linked except for the one concering Church attendance. Is it possible that BYU pulled it down since this kid was kicked out? Possibly.

So I ask you, what part of regular Church attendance is not part of the Honor Code?

cruiser wrote:

OLB, the BYU spokesman specifically stated that this is not an honor code violation. This is the result of a bishop (and, according to some, the stake president as well) who decided to make an example of an athlete. This kid was a candidate to become an all-American, and evidently he did go to church, just not where his bishop could see him. The fact that this went all the way to the Quorum of the Twelve indicates that there may have been some question about it, perhaps as to the punishment fitting the so-called crime.

Wrong. Jenkins stated that the dismissal did not come from the Honor Code Office. Nevertheless, it was an Honor Code violation. If it wasn't an Honor Code violation, why was he kicked out of school? The ecclesiastical endorsement is an intrical part of the Honor Code.

The fact that Church authorities signed off on the dismissal means to me the following two things:

1. There was something else which isn't public.

or

2. Church authorities think its important that all BYU students attend Church meetings regularly -- even star athletes.

The article clearly states that the member of the Twelve was okay with the punishment, which means that any concern about the punishment fitting the crime were unfounded.

etyotx wrote:

cruiser wrote:

gordito wrote:

cruiser wrote:

Most of you know that I'm as blue as anybody, but this really saddens me. Although it has to do with a baseball player, in the bigger picture, you can see how it might affect the football program just four days before loi-signing day.

http://www.sltrib.com/collegesports/ci_8149321

How might it affect the football program?
It's a given that the public won't be given all the details here. Certainly he's not surprised, surely it's not just missing a few Sundays right? I just hope this works itself out and nobody gets bitter.

Some coaches who are competing with us for highly regarded recruits will not hesitate to send this link to those athletes, along with a message of their own, saying something like, "Are you sure you want to play on a team where you can be kicked off for not going to church?" Some coaches will use any leverage they can get. In this case, they will simply see it as informing the athetes of the "truth" about BYU.

Exactly. Didn't that happen this year with a short-term commit? It seemed like somebody prayed and felt that BYU was the right choice and committed to BYU, only to have ute coaches remind him that he had to do all the hard stuff at BYU like go to church, live the commandments and go to class. It seems like that was why he decomitted and comitted with the U. I think it was Sealver Siliga (sp?).

Sealver committed to us "after praying about it," then decommitted and committed to Utah after talking to the Utah coaches. What they said, exactly, I don't know. But I am aware of another exceptional athlete right now who is hesitating about signing with us on Wednesday because he is afraid he might not do everything right at BYU. Keni Kafusi, who is an active member of the Church and lives in Salt Lake, is being recruited by many of the finest programs in the country but is shying away from BYU because he believes it may be too hard to keep all the rules there. He isn't specific about which rules he is concerned about, but those who know him say he would probably fit in well at BYU should he choose to go there. After reading this article in the Tribune, however, well, you get the picture.

By the way, I have talked to people on the team about this situation, and they say the coaches have already discussed it with them. Some of the players know the stake president and say that he is a "hardliner," for whatever that may be worth. In any event, the players know that they are to keep their ecclisiastical endorsements current. As for nonmembers not attending any church, yes, that happens. I guess, in this regard, the members are held to a higher standard.

It's hard to know exactly what happened, but this seems shocking on the surface. He was in his ward on 6 of 13 occasions. The other occasions, he was attending General Conference, attending his home ward in California, attending another ward in Utah, etc.

There was no sin or misdeed apparently. This reminds me of one year where I lived in an off-campus apartment. During the course of the school year, I saw the bishop on 3 total occasions and we spoke for a total of probably about 3 minutes. Literally! Tithing settlement was about 30 seconds. The third time was at the end of the semester when he saw me in the apartment complex and told me that he'd miss me! (I can't remember if he knew my name or not.)

I tell this story not to criticize that bishop. I actually thought he was a nice guy but I'm just glad that he didn't revoke my ecclesiastical endorsement! I certainly never went and "asked him to give me a calling!" (I'm pretty sure I've never asked any bishop to give me a calling...)

If there is another side to the story, I'd be very interested to hear what it is. Interesting that both the school and the athletic department apparently tried to go to bat for the athlete.

My sense is that once the bishop and the stake president made their decision, there was no way that a general authority could come in to overrule them. It's kind of like where an official makes a bad call that decides the outcome of the game, they don't go back and overturn the result (i.e. Oregon at Oklahoma football a couple of years back).