Wow, this is pretty big news. I wonder how the broadcasters will address the subject during the game today.

craigoscarson wrote:

tevita wrote:

I hope we all know that we don't drink coffee, not because of caffine, but because its a commandment. Yes coffee does have tantic acid that does eat away your stomach lining....So those to you that think caffine is against the word of wisdom, its not! But I am the first to admit that I love a cold can of Coca-cola classic (the red can).

But given the choice between that can of Coke and being a receiver in the spread offense, what would you chose? Not that you have to chose, but the point is, if you can't sacrifice your ego now, how about when your time comes and you're asked to step up and be a leader?

It seems to me that Kessman is just an immature kid that doesn't know how to sacrifice something stupid for something important and worth having. Not all immature kids grow out of it; I know a lot of immature adults too. Some of them run 5.2 40s also.......

I really don't think he quit because of the cappuccino. I think he was quit for other things. I don't think that had to be a choice for him.

OLB wrote:

craigoscarson wrote:

tevita wrote:

I hope we all know that we don't drink coffee, not because of caffine, but because its a commandment. Yes coffee does have tantic acid that does eat away your stomach lining....So those to you that think caffine is against the word of wisdom, its not! But I am the first to admit that I love a cold can of Coca-cola classic (the red can).

But given the choice between that can of Coke and being a receiver in the spread offense, what would you chose? Not that you have to chose, but the point is, if you can't sacrifice your ego now, how about when your time comes and you're asked to step up and be a leader?

It seems to me that Kessman is just an immature kid that doesn't know how to sacrifice something stupid for something important and worth having. Not all immature kids grow out of it; I know a lot of immature adults too. Some of them run 5.2 40s also.......

I don't think that drinking a cappuccino, or coffee, or whatever Kessman and the others did makes them immature. I think what makes someone immature is when they fail to pay the necessary consequences for decisions they made. The fact that Kessman decided to leave because he was suspended from practice makes him immature. The fact that he didn't want to pay for violating team rules makes him immature.

Let's take a counter-example. Would you call Manase Tonga immature for giving a false name to Provo Police? I wouldn't. It was a mistake, and a stupid one. But Tonga took his licks, didn't try to get out of his punishment. This makes Tonga a mature person.

The issue isn't the coffee at all, however 1 immature act is still an immature act. What Manase Tonga did was immature and irresponsible (throw in the tickets he accumulated previous to that and you see it wasn't really an isolated incident), however Bronco gives everyone a chance to take responsibility and make it right. Not everyone gets a second chance, even having made fairly stupid decisions. You really have to read between the lines with Kessman, it's not the fact that he drank coffee, or insinuated getting away from home to "live" with his girlfriend, led a group of freshmen to salt lake past their curfew, had seemingly a poor relationship with his high school coach, etc. etc. it's a combination of all that behavior. The when push comes to shove and he can't swallow a redshirt and the disaproval of his coaches, he bails-and his parents oblige him.

The coffee just makes for a good analogy. I played receiver and I just can't imagine giving up a chance to play receiver in the spread offense. You don't even have to fight to get open, the offense itself gets you open- especially at receiver. To get the ball in the seams and then have a chance for YAC should be every receivers dream. Not many proset and west coact offenses give you a chance to make a move after the catch. In a proset the idea is to get separation before the ball is thrown and buy yourself enough time to catch the ball before being tackled- timing is crucial(i.e 15 yard out, 10 yard out, etc.) In the spread offense, a shifty reciever with good footwork and an ability to take a hit or even deliver one can have a lot of fun. You don't have to be a burner in the spread offense (which Kessman is not) nor do you have to be 6'4". You have to be in the right place at the right time. The tougher you are the better.

Ironically, this kid doesn't seem to know where the right place is at the right time. This kind of attitude won't translate to success anywhere. He doesn't run a 4.4 40 and isn't going to be handed anything. He didn't want a redshirt year but showed up to camp out of shape.
He's not going to be a professional prospect based on his work ethic and speed (unless he switches positions) so maybe the best lesson he could have learned from his family was to suck it up, and take his licks like a man. Instead he reverts to behavior that he most likely learned form his parents. I say good riddance, the rest of our freshmen class will benefit from not having this kind of infectious attitude around them as they grow up in the program.

I'm happy to see that JJ DiLuigi wasn't in this group. What that kid accomplished last year going against the #1 team in the country to me is a testament of a true winner. (I'm guessing less than a handful of BYU players have ever had the kind of high school accomplishments as JJ-you just dont' drop 200 yards on the defending national high school champions.) This is a kid that's been told that he's too small , not fast enough, etc. etc. etc. and never bought into it.
He's not LDS and from what I've heard from those on campus, is that he's an extremely good kid with even a better attitude. G Pittman and others should have known better than to blow a curfew, regardless of their redshirt seasons, but I think for them this may have been a blessing. I doubt anyone on the team is crying tears for Ryan Kessman. Lazy possession receivers that can't run a sub 5.0 40 are a dime a dozen. Why wait until this kid is a senior and thinks he can literally "live" with his girlfriend and drink something harder than cappucino to let him out of his scholarship when he asks. I have a feeling it there wasn't much of a fuss and argument from Bronco to let him out of his schollie. If anything Bronco might have asked him to rethink it, to help the kid as a man; but at some point a kid has to learn the hard way.

I really appreciate snocythe getting the word out to us. Here in Oregon and Washington we only get what the regular media gives us (unless we read the message boards)

tevita wrote:

I hope we all know that we don't drink coffee, not because of caffine, but because its a commandment. Yes coffee does have tantic acid that does eat away your stomach lining....So those to you that think caffine is against the word of wisdom, its not! But I am the first to admit that I love a cold can of Coca-cola classic (the red can).

I want to clarify if I may my take on the Word of Wisdom, I don't claim to be a scholar, but I do get it. As was stated in a previous post that many people around the world read what may be posted on this board I thought it important to take a stand on a doctrine of our church that has been "brewed" over for years.

The introduction to the 1835 printing of the revelation in the Doctrine and Covenants indicated that it was given as counsel or advice rather than as a binding COMMANTMENT, though the revelation states that it was adapted to the capacity of the weak and the weakest of all saints" (D&C 89:3). The Church encouraged leaders to be an example to the people in abstaining from alcohol, tobacco, tea, and coffee, but no binding Church policy was articulated at this time.

By 1930 the abstinence from the use of these substances became an offical requirement for those seeking temple recommends. While abstinence from these substances is now required for temple attendance and for holding priesthood offices or other Church callings, no other ecclesiastical sanctions are imposed on those who do not comply with the Word of Wisdom.

With the appearance of cola drinks in the early 1900s, the Church was confronted with cold beverages containing caffeine, a harmful substance believed to make coffee and tea unaccepteble. While no official Church position has been stated, leaders have counseled members to avoid caffeine and other addictive chemicals.

The Word of Wisdom as we know it is as old as the human race. The principle of the W.o.W. was recieved by Adam. All the essentials of the W.o.W. were made known to him in his immortal state, before he had taken into his body those things that made it a thing of earth. He was warned against that very practice. He was warned that , if he did, his body would become subject to death.

So here's the meat of it, therein consisted the fall - the eating of things unfit, the taking into the body of the things that made of the body a thing of earth:

If the Lord would remove Adam from his presence for "drinking a cappuccino" where does that leave us?

Rackem'

This isn't about the word of wisdom, it's about a kid writing the rules as he goes. I don't care if the rule was "don't stand in the end zone if you're a freshman"- then you just don't stand in the end zone; who cares why....
I doubt a college freshman feels the same way about Starbucks as a 35 yr old female Seattle business exec. It's not much of a sacrifice to play football. The real issue is that the kid made up the rules as he went, and apparently this isn't the 1st place that has happened. Considering his parents leniency to allow him to skate, I'm going to guess it won't be the last place that he has issues with authority figures....


As far as the word of wisdom goes; being in the medical profession I gotta tell you that obesity kicks any other health problem in the nuts outside of smoking (In the clinic I could care less if someone drinks coffee, unless they're already diabetic or have cardiac/blood pressure issues, which often are a result of obesity). Personally I think that if our bodies "are temples" that being overweight is as much of a breach of the word of wisdom as nearly anything else written in stone therein. Of course, what would we do without Olinemen?
Joking aside, obesity is right up there with smoking in the U.S. as health epidemics go right now. Many other countries smoke and drink as much if not more than the U.S. but fatter countries are few and far between.....As avoidable health problems go, obesity is something that while almost never on the lips of church leaders go-is as much of a health problem as church members see-and it's as serious as a heart attack, pun intended. It'll be interesting if it ever becomes more of an issue as far as church leadership goes...